Musings on Mixing…
Jun 28th, 2008 by SteveB
I’m a firm believer that >95% of the problems encounteredby bread bakers originate at the mixing stage. The main objective of proper mixing is todevelop thegluten sufficientlyso that it can effectivelytrap theCO2produced during fermentation. Overmixing shouldbe avoided since it can lead toan overly strong doughwhich canresult in aloaf with poor volume and a tough crumb.
It has also been emphasized by many professional bakersthatovermixing can also cause the oxidation of compounds present within the dough whichcontribute to the flavor and color of the bread.While I don’t doubt that this can be a real concern at the commercial scale, wherehighly efficient dough mixers canquickly incorporate too much air into the dough if left unchecked, at the scale of the home bakerI foundthat I had to look for ways to actuallyincrease air incorporation. At appropriate levels, the airis beneficial in that it contributes oxygen which isused, albeit rather quickly,bythe yeastduring its aerobic reproduction phase. Small air bubbles in the doughalso actsasnucleifor alveoliproduction during fermentation.
Not having atabletop spiral mixer on hand (although I hopeone day to be the proud owner of an SP5,http://www.tmbbaking.com/sp5.html),I turned to my trusty KitchenAid Pro 6000 stand mixer. Unfortunately, I found myKitchenAid mixer to have insufficient torque to properlymixbread dough and, with either the standard C-hook or the spiral hook, was unable to stretch or aerate the dough to the necessary extent.
I next looked at mixing my baguette dough with myMagic Mill Assistent (no, that’s not a mispelling!). These mixers are now available under the Electrolux DLX name. While the DLX has plenty of torque toadequately stretch the dough,in my hands Istill wasn’t able toincorporate enough air to properly develop the small quantity of dough with which I was working.
After trying more approaches to mixing than any sane person would ever attempt(I even went so far as toconstruct a makeshift spiral mixer with the spiral dough hook of my KitchenAid mixer spinning within the bowl of myDLX), I was finally dragged, kicking and screaming, to therealization that the best technique for mixingsmall (and not so small) quantities of dough was to mix by hand, using atechnique I first learned from Richard Bertinet in his book Dough: Simple Contemporary Breads. This technique can be seen below:[qt:http://breadcetera.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/BaguetteMaking1.MOV 500 375]
The idea here is to stretch the dough and then fold it over upon itself, trapping air within the dough in the process. When the hand mixing is begun, the dough starts out rough and sticky; resist the urge to add more flour. As the mixing proceeds, the dough becomes more cohesive,smooth and much less sticky. In Bertinet’s words, the dough begins to “feel alive”. Just 10-15 mins.of hand mixing in this fashion will produce a smooth French bread dough with just the right amount of development for a loaf with good volume, a tender crumb and a nuanced flavor.
Great to see this technique being demonstrated in a video. Not having access to a mechanical mixer of any description (and unwilling to make the investment) this technique has been essential for my bread making efforts.
FP
FP, If I knew then what I know now, I would have saved quite a bit of money on mixers. Not only is a mixer not required, but I’ve found that hand mixing produces a far better result than most tabletop mixers (although I’m still intrigued by the possibilities of the SP5 tabletop spiral mixer). I guess old gadget habits die hard. 🙂
I have also found this technique to be the best way to get the “silky” look that professional bakers describe. Aside from this method I have only seen dough of this strength made by machine. The only drawback is the inevitable mess on your hands in the early stages of kneading, before the dough decides to stick to itself and not you. Weighing your ingredients to get an exact hydration is also helpful. If after this kind of kneading your dough is still too sticky to work you can always back the liquid off a percent or two.
I forgot to add that the only drawback to this method is the noise. The other tenants in my building don’t appreciate the sound of a couple pounds of dough being slapped against a counter a few hundred times early in the morning. I usually stick to the standard fold and push method if it’s early. It doesn’t make much difference in most breads, but for baguettes it is noticeable.
There is also a helpful video of Mr. Bertinet demonstrating the technique here: http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/video/2008/03/bertinet_sweetdough
It’s where I first learned it.
cb, Thanks for the link to the Bertinet video on hand mixing. It is quite similar to the video on the DVD included with his book, “Dough”.
I like this method of hand mixing also. You and I have come to different conclusions about the KitchenAid, though; with spiral hook, I find it works just fine for small quantities of dough.
I’m off to give it a try! I’ve got some baguette dough autolysing and I’m going to knead it only with this technique to see how it changes. I’ll let you know if it helps me with the holes!
Jane
Jane, good luck! Remember, the objective is to entrap as much air as possible within the dough while mixing.
OK, I think I’ll just end up in a deep bread depression. The technique is incredible! I loved it, it worked so well . But I wasn’t sure when to stop. I was doing Hamelman’s poolish baguette recipe and he calls for little kneading and then folding. So, I did this technique until it formed a very nice, together, smooth shape. Then I did one fold after an hour.
Well, they seemed ready to go in the oven. I baked them on the stone because I realized that each time I do it in my special baguette pan and that is probably NOT a good idea. They seemed to rise but the ears didn’t form properly. There are some holes but they are still dense. OK, they taste great… but still.
BTW, can you put your recipes in grams? The baguette one is oz. I haven’t looked a the raisin bread yet because we have company and I’m rushing around baking two types of bread, baking a b-day cake and preparing BBQ ribs and a vegetable tian. YIKES!!! Maybe I don’t concentrate on the baguettes enough, they know I’m doing it haphazardly. 🙂
Jane
Jane, keep your chin up! I’m sure you’ll get your baguettes to where you want them to be! There are just so many details that need attention when making baguettes. Mixing is one of the more important ones. I find that a tight but gentle shaping, a proper second fermentation time and proper scoring are also key for getting a light baguette with a nice ‘grigne’. I might do a video on scoring in a future post.
I’m just amazed that with five children, you manage to have time to bake any bread at all!
[…] pte est dabord ptrie avec cette technique ICI (dans le blog de Steve qui fait des vido supers) pendant pas plus de cinq minutes, juste pour […]
[…] Ainsi ce ne sera pas ncessaire de fariner la pte. Pour voir la technique en vido, cest ICI.Un peu restera colle sur la table, mais petit petit la pte formera une boule assez serre […]
Just discovered this post of yours, Steve. I’m sorry I hadn’t read it before, I’m going to mention this post in Makanai.
Bertinet doesn’t seem to be the inventor of that mixing method, is he? It seems to me that it is the method taught to the apprentices in France. That’s what Anis Bouabsa recently told me, for example. Do you know more about that?
Steve, I just found a superb video here : http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/video/2008/03/bertinet_sweetdough
Flo, thanks for the mention in Makanai. I think I can confidently state, and Bertinet may be the first to admit, that this mixing method is nothing new, although it has only recently come to the forefront of artisan baking consciousness. In fact, I saw something very similar being performed during a baking demonstration put on by a representative of the King Arthur Flour Company over 5 years ago. I would venture to say that this mixing method is pretty much in the public domain, with no one person able to claim it as his/her own.
Thanks for the link to the Bertinet video. It is very similar to the video on the DVD that was included with his book, “Dough”.
Steve,
I am about to finally invest in a DLX but see you wrote:
“If I knew then what I know now, I would have saved quite a bit of money on mixers. Not only is a mixer not required, but Ive found that hand mixing produces a far better result than most tabletop mixers ”
Well, I was wondering:
1. Is there any merits to the DLX or is it catagorically worse than hand mixing?
2. I work in a pro bakery and am aware a lot of muscle and joint issues can be avoided by mixers. Do you find using your DLX at home is easier on your body? Or is baking one or two loaves a week OK without your DLX?
3. While Hamelman advocates slow / minimal mixing and prolonged fermentation sometimes using folding, my understanding is some doughs which benefit from regular and tighter crumb holes (sandwhcih bread) benefit from a longer mix at higher speed … Does the DLX help here?
4. Does the DLX benefit difficult to shape breads (baguettes, pizza?)
Thanks,
Chris
Hi Chris,
As my response to your questions would probably take more space than I have available here, please look for my response via e-mail.
Just ran across your blog. Like you, I tend to take a scientific approach to my dough and baking. To me, bread is the perfect mix of chemistry, biology, and physics.
I was interested in this particular post on mixing because there is no mention of a bread machine. Of the three methods, stand mixer, hand mixing, or bread machine, I have not found any method that works better for mixing than a bread machine. I never bake in it; I just use it for kneading. Watching the video on this page, I would have to say that the bread machine’s action produces a similar kind of stretching and folding, an action that is quite different from what I observe in a stand mixer. The stand mixer seems to be rather brutal on dough.
The uncontrolled variable in all my testing is my skill level. Perhaps the bread machine kneads dough so well because I don’t know how to knead dough by hand “correctly.”
Thoughts on bread machines for kneading?
Rick, I’ve never owned a bread machine so I can’t speak to its advantages/disadvantages from a personal perspective. I know of a number of people who, like you, use one just for kneading. I also have a recollection of an old King Arthur Flour catalog where they show the greater loft they get from a loaf by kneading the dough with a bread machine vs. a stand mixer.
I’m of the opinion that for the home baker, of the methods I’ve tried (hand mixing, planetary mixing or DLX-style mixing), hand mixing works best. It is by far the gentlest means of dough development. Perhaps one day, if I can get my hands on a bread machine for a day or two, I’ll be able to make a side-by-side comparison.
I just found your site today, and am very interested and pleased that you found the best way of ‘working’ your dough to be the method used by Richard Bertinet. I use the word ‘working’ because that’s what he calls it, he doesn’t use the term ‘kneading’. I was lucky enough to be a student at one of his bread courses last May, attending his school/kitchen in Bath, Somerset, England. I have both his books, Dough and Crust and find them excellent especially as they both include a DVD, and excellent way of teaching his methods.
I am not an experienced bread maker and find it interesting you say you get the best results by hand mixing as usually I do too, but I didn’t realize it until you mentioned it, but all the breads I’ve made using hand methods DO turn out better than when using my Kenwood mixer. Thank you for that thought!
Hi Jeannette and welcome to Bread cetera!
You are truly lucky to have had the opportunity to attend Monsieur Bertinet’s baking school. Bertinet is performing an invaluable service by introducing this traditional French method of hand mixing to a wider audience of home bakers.
Since this post was written, however, I have worked out a technique for dough mixing using a stand mixer which I find aerates the dough even more efficiently than the hand mixing method described here. This double flour addition technique can be seen here. For those with access to a stand mixer, I highly recommend this approach. I now use this technique almost exclusively.
[…] great technical info on caring for your starter, among other things. And BreadCetera, which has this great post on how best to hand mix your dough, complete with video for visual […]
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Steve
Heres a link to a Julia Child show that demonstrtates an interesting mixing technique for batards and baguettes called “frisage” that employs a slap and fold method.
Its a fairly thourough instructional.
http://www.pbs.org/juliachild/free/baguette.html
(link does not load in Firefox so use IE)
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Hello,
“This technique can be seen below: ”
I can not see the method, could you repair the page please?
Thank you
Daniel, I’ve checked on this end and there doesn’t appear to be a problem with the video. Perhaps you may want to check your browser and your QuickTime plug-in to make sure it’s properly installed.
Hello Steve, I should have tested it wit Firefox, thanks. It never occured to me that IE7 could be allergic to bread.
That woman’s mixing and frisage” techniques in the Julia child video really look like a pain in the ass. However her variation on the french kneading looks to be good for stiffer doughs. Bertinets version of it works well with wetter dough, but I think her’s might be something to switch to when it’s not wet enough to work well with his method.
I want to followup my comment on that frisage technique. It seemed like such unnecessary effort to me. However I recently tried a flour meant to replicate french T55 flour, and found after mixing it together with the water, salt, and yeast, it seemed to form a number of little lumps of flour that didn’t easily blend in, as I’m used to with your typical American flours like King Arthur. With such a flour, I can see that such a frisage technique makes a lot of sense! Funny how “best” techniques tend to be so dependent on the particular ingredients as well as the other techniques we may be using.
[…] d’eau (j’ai utilis 240g) pour former une pte molle, sans tenue. Ptrir la main (Musings on Mixing) jusqu’ dveloppement modr du gluten, 10-15 minutes. Ajouter le beurre ramolli et […]
Thank you so much for your wonderful kneading instructions. I just tried this 2 handed smack and fold method and it seems to be very effective. It’s also easier for me to teach to my students. I teach cooking classes, but I have recently introduced an Italian Flat Bread class (pizza and focaccia). That stuff is nice and easy, but serious rustic breads (like levain, baguette, etc) are still a struggle for me. I’ve been doing some poolish vs no poolish experiments (they are on my blog in case you are curious). I can’t seem to see the difference between doing a poolish+1 rise+proof vs 2 rises + proof (Julia Child’s way). Do you have any opinion on this or explanation why pre-ferments are better than mixing it all together (assuming you add an extra rise)?
Thank you again for the wealth of information you provide here!
Hi Helen,
I would hesitate to make the blanket statement that using a pre-ferment when mixing dough is ‘better’ than using the straight dough method. One can bake some truly remarkable bread using the straight dough method.
As you know, the flavor and aroma components of a bread are developed during the fermentation process. Generally speaking and within certain limits, the longer the fermentation time, the more these flavor and aroma components have the opportunity to develop. By using a relatively small (~0.8% baker’s percentage) amount of yeast when mixing a straight dough, one is able to extend the fermentation time to enable full flavor development.
Alternatively, if one ‘pre-ferments’ a part of the dough (in the form of a poolish, pte fermente, biga, etc.) prior to the final dough mixing, one can use a shorter fermentation time to yield comparable levels of flavor development. This shorter fermentation time, and thus overall shorter time from mixing to baking, can provide some significant scheduling advantages to both the commercial and home baker.
Hi Steve,
I also use the Bertinet technique. I’ve noticed the mixing times to develop “moderate dough” seem to be quicker than suggested in the Bertinet books and I wondered if it is a result of the flours he works with versus the King Arthur AP flour I ordinarily use. (I noticed you have had a chance to work with some french flours and their development times are different. And I’m aware some of the French and Italian flours are of lower protein.)
So I guess the question is if the Bertinet dough development times need adjusting for the different types of flours or if you’ve noticed a difference with his technique when using certain types of flours?
Ernie
Hi Ernie,
Mixing times required to reach a given level of dough development are very much flour dependent (the level of dough hydration appears to be a factor as well). In general, higher protein flours require longer mixing times. For example, I’ve found that hand mixing a dough made with KA AP flour takes me, on average, around 6 minutes to reach moderate development. With French T65 flour, I found that 2 minutes was all that was needed.
It’s interesting that you find you need less mixing time than Bertinet since I would imagine that the flour Bertinet uses would be lower in protein content than KA AP flour.
Hello,
I am currently making your bread! Like you said from a very sticky dough after 10 min the dough started to become much more smooth and pliable. My problem is that I do not know when it’s ready. I tried to do the window test but it breaks very easily. Does that meant that I should stop kneading (because i am braking the gluten) or that I should keep pounding it (until gluten forms)
Thank you very much for your help !
Raya
Hi Raya,
Assuming you are hand-mixing, it is virtually impossible for you to mix the dough to such a degree that the gluten begins to break down.
If your dough is smooth and pliable but a bit too firm, a window pane test will result in a shaggy tearing of the dough even after the dough has been mixed for some time. If this is the case, try adding a bit more water to the dough.
Hi Steve, I always use a mixer to do my dough. I use the Kenwood Chef KMC560. This has a 1000watt ( 1 &1/4 horses ) It develops lots of torque. I sit and watch it, at times not permanently, one can see the dough rising up the hook, then folding back down over dough on the hook. This action continues, at a SLOW speed, for around 10 mins when I am left with a very well mixed dough. My sister here in the UK has a Kitchenaid, and this struggles with anything aproaching 600gram of flour. I can easily go up to 850 gram. Never had cause to use more, the Ken never even stalls. Bit like comparing a magic Ford Mustang, Bullitt style, to a Ford Pinto.
BTW love your Chiabatta recipe, and baguette with poolish, turn out very tasty indeed. I think once I get my folding technique sorted, things will get better. That being the only stage I struggle with, even resting dough a few times I still have a fight on my hands. Keep up the good work. Appreciated.
Hi Don,
I’m glad you’re enjoying the blog and your Kenwood mixer. For those readers who may not be aware, a mixer’s input power (1,000 watts in the case of the Kenwood) has little to do with a mixer’s ability to efficiently mix dough. Of greater importance is a mixer’s torque and its configuration (i.e., planetary, spiral, oblique, etc.).
Fascinating. I get to try this later today on my first attempt at pain au levain. I think I’ll miss the soothing rocking motion of traditional kneading, though, which I find very meditative. I can’t imagine the slapping is going to have the same effect 🙂
I’m also intrigued by the comments on the various mixers. I used to have a KitchenAid that I used fora decade or more to knead whole wheat standard bread dough. The motor finally started making a slight burning smell and I handed it down to someone who planned to limit its use to cookie dough and less heavy work.
My next KitchenAid, with a bigger motor that I thought would be helpful for the heavy dough, was a disaster–went through three warranty returns and finally literally gave up. Each one shut off after just a couple of minutes of kneading and a repair shop told me they had a problem with heat sensors or something in that particular model.
I don’t currently own a mixer and do everything by hand. Based on the comments here if I do buy one I’m going to look at the Kenwood.
Thank you not only to you but to all your readers who share their experiences too. It makes for a very rich reading experience.
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